Ashampoo Photo Organizer
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Changelog
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Feedback
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Hi,
securely erasing files (by rewriting the blocks with zeros or random data) could be a potential new feature in the future. It sounds like an interesting addition, particularly for sensitive files, and might even be a compelling Pro feature.
We’re also considering a feature for private albums, which would be password-protected and encrypted. This could work well in conjunction with the secure erasure feature. How does that sound to you?
We don’t plan to use the system’s regular recycle bin, which is consistent with other apps. Typically, apps with a recycle bin use it as a holding area for images marked for deletion (in their database).
We do something similar, but our approach involves using metadata. EXIF metadata can have a rating value of -1, which indicates a file is "rejected". When you move files to the recycle bin, we actually write the "rejected" rating to the metadata. This way, other apps that understand metadata will also recognize the file as rejected. Look for a flag symbol with an "X" — this is the most common representation.
When you empty the recycle bin, the real deletion happens directly from the disk, bypassing the system’s recycle bin. This involves removing the file from the file system's index. In the future, we might implement rewriting these bytes with garbage data before deletion, as mentioned earlier. (Of course this is only possible with Non-Cloud-files)
Would that help you?
Kind regards,
Stefan
Dear Stefan,
First let me apologize for the delay in responding; I've been out of town for medical reasons.
Securely erasing in the program would be fine, I still would prefer to have anything deleted to go straight to the system recycle bin where I could use the program of choice to wipe, such as O&O Safe Erase.
I do like the idea of a secure album, and feel many would like the option of password protection.
I appreciate your explanation of your current deletion method, yet it is still recoverable by many programs.
As far as "Cloud" file. . . most know of the risk I would hope. 😏
I do think whichever way you go would be appreciated by the majority in these days of security issues. Personally, I would feel it would be a great marketing point and a proactive and responsible approach of the company's commitment to security.
Sincerely,
Heidi-Ann Kennedy-Fourkiller
Scientific Frontline
Hi Heidi-Ann,
Thank you for getting back to me. I hope you are well. :)
I understand that you prefer using a dedicated wiping tool of your choice and trust. In that case, we could consider offering both options: moving files to the system's recycle bin when deleted from the app's recycle bin, and providing a secure erase option.
I'm thinking of a setting where users can decide what "deletion" means. The options could be "simple delete" (what we currently do), "secure erase" (which would take a bit longer), or "move to system recycle bin."
Which photo management app do you currently use, and does it offer such an option? I'd like to see how they handle it in the UI.
I'm trying to balance giving users choices (which I always prefer) with keeping the settings menu simple to avoid complexity. I'll need to discuss this internally with the team.
We didn't initially consider this use case and designed it like most other apps. That's why we have this feedback forum—to understand what users really need. So thank you again for your feedback! :)
I see the marketing value in this as well. Ashampoo is highly focused on security and privacy, so a feature like this would fit our lineup perfectly.
Kind regards,
Stefan
@software @stefan
Well, there is my problem. . . I have tried a few and recently "XnView MP." I seem to always just end up using my file manager "XYplorer" to keep matters in some logical order. I saw the pro version of Photo Organizer and signed up for the subscription seeing its potential to end my nightmare.
Heidi-Ann
@software
I totally understand. You will hear from me after I talked to my team about this. 🙂
@software @stefan
Thanks for the consideration on this.
Heidi-Ann
@software
Hi Heidi-Ann,
I've done some research on this topic and have some thoughts to share.
Securely erasing a HDD by rewriting with zeros is straightforward and can even be done using native tools like "cipher" on Windows.
For SSDs, this approach doesn't work due to wear leveling, which causes every write operation to use different sectors. Properly deleting files on an SSD depends on the manufacturer. This is why O&O developed their "SolidErase" feature, which likely uses a database of manufacturers to determine the correct deletion method. Replicating this would be complex.
If we were to provide a setting to move files to the system's recycle bin for secure deletion by O&O SafeErase, copies of the files might still remain on your disk. Metadata changes, such as tagging or moving files to the app's recycle bin, result in rewriting the files. Due to wear leveling, this often saves copies in different positions on the disk.
To ensure secure deletion, a file must be created once on your SSD and not modified by any tool until it is securely deleted.
This means all metadata for all files should be written to XMP sidecars. You can enforce this by disabling the "embed metadata" option in the settings. However, some apps like Microsoft Photo do not support XMP sidecars, which is a disadvantage.
There are additional drawbacks: Old versions of XMP sidecar files and thumbnails we create may remain on the disk.
To properly handle confidential files, Photo Organizer would need a function for secure erasing, either natively or by calling an external tool like O&O SafeErase, to delete old versions of the original file, thumbnails, and XMP sidecars. It might also be necessary to address Windows Thumbs.db, which could still contain thumbnails of deleted files.
I'm committed to finding a solution that truly meets your needs without being half-baked.
How do you currently ensure that your sensitive images are deleted without leaving any traces? I'd appreciate hearing about your approach.
Kind regards,
Stefan
@software @stefan
Someone's been busy. . . Good morning. (or afternoon)
Well, let's see if I can answer a few of the questions.
Of course everyone's rigs (computer) are different, but in my case (which I built all six myself) I only use HDD for my own personal preference.
So, let's look at XMP sidecar files. Typically, any image I’m concerned about was sent by another source e.g. Lockheed, ESA, or a research source and are not RAW. These will not contain a XMP sidecar files unless the program I adjust or edit it with produces one, or I manually change the metadata, and in such cases I’m aware of it and delete manually after processing.
Any image that is time sensitive to being released is kept in a separate encrypted folder till needed.
Now let's go back and take a look at O&O Safe Erase. Other than the standard method of deleting with the program there is (see screenshot) the option to securely delete Window and Program files, including thumbnail DB. Which I use after returning anything back to the encrypted folder, end of day, or session.
I think for the typical user a simple “zero” overwrite is sufficient.
I believe, and correct me if I’m wrong that O&O software is a partner company with Ashampoo. They are a very helpful company and I would assume be more than happy to help address some of the issues.
The goal is to make retrieval as difficult as possible, nothing is impossible, but in most cases not worth the effort for the average person trying to look.
@software
Hi Heidi-Ann,
Thank you for explaining this in more detail. :)
With only HDDs, you are indeed on the safe side here. These are easy to securely delete compared to SSDs.
If you edit the image metadata and save it under a new name as a separate file, your process of securely deleting the old file should work. Most photo management apps I know of write the new content to a temporary file and then move that to replace the old file when changes are made. Photo Organizer does the same.
Since moving a file is an atomic action, it is considered the safest way to update a file. If we were to rewrite the file in the exact position, a crash could leave users with a corrupted (only partially written) file. We don't want this ever to happen.
So in general, this is an advantage. However, in your case of handling sensitive files, this creates a drawback because copies on the disk can't be deleted by securely erasing the recycle bin.
If everyone still used HDDs instead of SSDs, this wouldn't be a concern. The app could be set to zero out everything old on every write. The problem is: If we implement secure erase this way, it won't be useful for SSD owners, who I believe are the vast majority of users nowadays.
Mind that the move to system recycle bin option will only work if you write XMP sidecars alongside your JPG files (not embedding them!), allowing O&O SafeErase to delete the file at its original position. However, there will still be a thumbnail that Photo Organizer creates and deletes, which can't be found by O&O SafeErase. Besides, it has more drawbacks I mentioned earlier, so I don't think this is what you really need.
O&O software is a partner company in the sense that we sell their products on our marketplace, like many other partners, but we don't share development resources.
In conclusion, I think what we really need to do this properly (without leaking any data) and fast is an open-source library that resembles what O&O SafeErase does. This doesn't seem to be available right now.
Building this for Photo Organizer is a huge task that would only be justified if we see significant demand for it.
Another possibility is that another team here at Ashampoo might build a competing tool like O&O SafeErase. In that case, Photo Organizer could work in conjunction with that. I will forward this idea to my colleagues and see what they think.
Kind regards,
Stefan
The Screenshot
I've researched the behavior of other photo management apps and found that most of them indeed move deleted files to the system's recycle bin (for files deleted from local drives, not network drives). This is a detail I had previously overlooked. While I regularly clean my recycle bin, I never examined its contents closely.
This also means I was wrong earlier as I wrote bypassing the systems recycle bin is consistent with other apps. I'm sorry for that.
To align with other tools and meet user expectations, we will implement this behavior as well.
This means a "deletion" in the app will still mean setting the rejected rating, but a "empty recycle bin" means transfering these files to the systems recycle bin instead of direct deletion from disk.
At first this won't be a setting. If users give us the feedback they want to decide upon direct deletion and moving to system recycle bin we would offer a setting option for that.
Thank you for bringing this up!
@stefan
Good to hear. Thanks for not just considering, but going above and beyond in looking into a suggestion.
I sure hope Ashampoo realizes what an asset you are to them.
@software The new version moves all files now to the system's recycle bin as you wished. :)
@stefan
Well Stefan, and excuse the language, but damn you all have been kicking some butt in making all those changes so quickly.
Take the day off.
Thank you!
@software Thank you a lot! 🙏🏻🙂